MSS 6954 - Minutes from excommunication of Orson Pratt Number of Pages: 2 It is the responsibility of the researcher to obtain any copyright clearances. Permission to publish material from this/these transcript(s) must be obtained from the Supervisor of Reference Services and/or the L. Tom Perry Special Collection Coordinating Committee. [Notes added by transcribers are in square brackets. Dashes in square brackets indicate unclear words or letters. indicate words the author inserted to a previously written line.] ----- new page (MSS6954_p001.jpg) Minutes of the trial of Orson Pratt Junr for his fellowship, before the public held in the Bowery, St George, on Sunday 18th Sep 1864, at 2. P.M. Bishop R. Gardner brought the case of O. Pratt Junr. before the meeting stating the charge to be:- Charge. 1st He refused to go on a mission to England, when called. 2nd He has stated openly before the High Council, that he does not believe Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God. 3rd He does not believe Mormonism to be of divine origins. Statements. The Bishop said 'on account of this, he (OP) has resigned his place in the High Council; he has been dropt from the High Priests Quorum; and it now remains for the Saints to say whether or no he shall continue his standing in the Church. Permission. Permission was given Bro Pratt to make a statement if he wished to. O.P.'s Statements. 'Brethren and Sisters (for I suppose I may still continue to call you so, for I believe we are all children of the same parent, and notwithstanding action may be taken against me to day, I shall still look upon those before me as brethren and Sisters, as I do every child of God.). Bro McArthur called upon me this morning and informed me that my presence was needed here as action would be taken upon my case. I thought sometime since that I would attend no more public meetings here, as bro Snow had desired me to resign my position in the High Council which I have done, and they wished me also to resign from the High Priests' Quorum; but on second thought I refused to do so: not that I was anxious to retain my position, as I have never asked for an office, but because I did not know what they would think of it at head quarters. In G.S.L. City I was made a High Councilor, although I was then an unbeliever as I am now, and retained the position until I came down here, when another was appointed in my place. In regard to my faith, I have long since seen differently to this people, and, though I am not in the habit of laying anything in self justification, I can say that since I have been in this Church, I have lived a godly and upright life but I resolved not to accept of anything that my conscience could not receive. At eight I was baptized into the Church. I was brought up in the Church and scarcely knew anything else, and, if I had been asked, at that time, what I was baptized for I should have said For the remission of sins, as I had learned this by heart–Parrot like–and knew no better. Well, I accompanied my father on a mission to England, and went round distributing tracts, not that I thought it a duty, but because my father thought I might take a part in the work, and I liked to see the old women get in a rage, throw the tracts in the street, and slam their doors. We came to the valley, and as we were required to, I went forth and was rebaptized. All this time I was a believer. But soon there was much said about receiving a testimony. It was talked of from the stand that every person should have a testimoney to f the truth of Mormonism, I was astonished to find I had not got it. I saw young people, who came from England and other places, stand up in Ward Meetings, and say they had received this testimoney, and, yet I, who was raised in the Church could not, I could not account for it, and I asked myself the question, if I had the testimony but without knowing it. During a conference held in the City, I, with some other young men, was called on to speak, and bore testimoney to the work. Sometime afterward the President got up and said that neither this thing nor that thing could give us a Knowledge, and that without this Knowledge it was of no use being a Mormon. It was the same that I had said in favor of t[--] work just before, although perhaps the President had forgotten what [---] said about the matter. Well, I thought I would know something [---] the matter and I set to work to read the books printed on fav[---] but after reading carefully and attentively I came to the conclusion of the [---] [Tear obscures some text in bottom right corner] ----- new page (MSS6954_p002.jpg) OP. Statements. I remember reading that in a court in England, witnesses were being ex- amined concerning the existence of a certain monument in London, and such were the conflicting testimonies, concerning its color, hight &c given by those who passed by it almost daily, that had it been as it generally is [-]n deciding by testimoney, it would have been decided that such a monument did not exist. Well how strange it is that people form such a different opinions from the same testimoney, yet such is the case, and I have come to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was not sent of God, and I cannot help it, though I may be punished for it the next moment. When I was brought up before the High Council that said I bore a good character. They had nothing against me, but that I did not believe in some of the principles of Mormonism (for believe me brethren and Sisters, I believe some of the principles to be good.) Now let a man cheat or steal, he may even be guilty of adultry, or any other heinous crime, yet, if he will stand up here and say that he believes the same as you do, you will hold to him and keep him in fellowship. And I confess it makes me feel somewhat strange, when I find that because I do not believe as you do, though nothing can be said against my moral character, yet I must be dropt off. [Bishop Gardner said he would like to know who were guilty of the crimes men- Request & answere.tioned, as he wished to deal with all such. Bro Orson said he did not wish to tell their names but they were well known] Statements (con) This is how I feel, I notice many friends around in this congregation whom I believe to be good, honest, and upright people, I don't care what they believe, but I can respect them. They claim the right of believing what they choose, and I claim the same right for myself. And though you may cut me off from the Church there is one thing I am confident of, and that is, as long as my con- science does not upbraid me, no act of man's can ever shut me out from the light of God's presence. There is another matter I wish to refer to, and I would like the people to un- derstand it. When I was called on the mission I came down with my father and we first went up the river and settled at Grafton, but after a short time we came down to St George. My father had not been here long before he found that a secret influence was working against him. I did not feel it, but he did, and it was a constant source of trouble to him, and had it not been for this influence he would have been in your midst to day. The person would not come out against him like a man, but kept in the dark, and worked against him like a snake in the grass. My father bore up against it as long as he could without coming to an open rupture, and when he could bear it no longer, he sought for another mission. When he went away the same influence began to work against me, and it would even work with my wife and try to separate us in feeling. He would meet her by night and tell her that her husband was in the dark and going astray but he was not successful. I will tell you who that was, The individual was Erastus Snow.